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Welcome
Jun 28, 2011 13:17:17 GMT -5
Post by William Ruddock on Jun 28, 2011 13:17:17 GMT -5
Welcome to this forum. It is the vision of this forum to provide persons, interested in Erick Westervelts wrongful conviction, a way to connect.
It is anticipated that all persons in this forum will be respectful. The moderator reserves the right at all times to delete inappropriate posts or comments.
UPDATE: 7/19/2011 Please note, I have made this forum read only to guest users. What is posted here is generally available to the open internet. Only registered users may post comments.
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Welcome
Jun 29, 2011 8:28:31 GMT -5
Post by bobbyo1011 on Jun 29, 2011 8:28:31 GMT -5
Thanks Bill. I think this forum is a great idea. I am sure that Erick and all of his supporters are very grateful for the time and energy you have spent in trying to educate the public regarding the truth regarding his case. I know the power of public opinion in overcoming injustice. I predict this website, in general, and this forum, specifically, will go a long way to accomplishing.
I plan to visit Erick with another supporter on Saturday, July 30th. I live on LI and will be staying overnight in Glenn Falls on Friday, 7/29 before making the trip up to Clinton early Sat. morning. I would be more than happy to meet with fellow supporters who might be in the area that Friday evening for a few beers and the opportunity to learn more about E's case.
I will do my best to spread the word about your website and this message forum. When Marty Tankleff's message board was at its peak, he had supporters from all over the world discussing his case. I predict that the same will happen here.
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Welcome
Jun 29, 2011 11:34:55 GMT -5
Post by janadu175 on Jun 29, 2011 11:34:55 GMT -5
I hope u r right, Bobbyo. The truth needs to be told. I would welcome any questions regarding the case. Everything from Es illegal arrest to now, and before that:).
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Welcome
Jun 29, 2011 19:17:13 GMT -5
Post by bobbyo1011 on Jun 29, 2011 19:17:13 GMT -5
This is actually a pretty cool forum. I have been active on a few message boards and this one is as good and easy to use as any I have seen.
I posted Erick's website on my Facebook page. It is really difficult to tell how many has viewed it since there is no way of knowing who visits.
I also posted this a political message board (631politics) which is based in Suffolk County. Therefore I am not too surprised that there is not too much traffic since most posters care only about what happens in their own backyard.
I fully predict that eventually we will be able to increase the amount of visitors are word spreads throughout the capitol district. Erick's case was overshadowed by the other axe murder case which got lots more publicity.
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Welcome
Jul 3, 2011 18:33:31 GMT -5
Post by bobbyo1011 on Jul 3, 2011 18:33:31 GMT -5
While, it would be nice to increase local interest in the Albany area, I am sure Erick would be pleased to know that supporters from all over the world have taken an interest in his case.
Erick must start to win his case in the court of public opinion before he will ever stand a chance in a real court room. My experience with wrongful conviction is the the judges, cops and prosecutors will continue to resist righting a wrong until the point where the truth is so obvious and public opinion starts hurting them politically. See, that is what this is really all about: politics.
Albany County has long been know in criminal justice circles as a haven for cops and prosecutors where the defense is seriously at a disadvantage. Candidates running for office (regardless of party) want and need the endorsement of the police unions to win elections or reelections. What candidate does not want to seem like they are on the side of the guys in the white hats? What politician does not want to "take a bite out of crime"? Who wants to seem like they are on the side of the criminals?
The press works the same way, too. Let's face it. Where do reporters get their biggest stories? That's right! From the DA! What reporter is going to go on a crusade for someone they think might be innocent and run the risk of alienating the biggest source of their news stories? That would be journalistic suicide.
So, Erick has a long road ahead. If he really is innocent as he says he is, he will have to prove it. Evidently, Erick does have a small corps of supporters and advocates (janadu175 is one). I believe that if Erick is innocent that the answer is out there somewhere and he will have to find it.
I do look forward to meeting with Erick by the end of the month and hear his case from his own perspective. If Erick is innocent and someone knew it at the time he was convicted, his incarceration is a travesty of justice amounting to murder. In addition to my experience as a police investigator, I am also a religious person (although I probably don't practice what I preach as good as I should). I have become pretty skeptical and cynical about our system of "justice." I have seem too many people in authority abuse it with no regard for the victims of their lies and deceipt. I do believe that all of us will face perfect justice one day, if not in this world, then in the next.
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Post by bobbyo1011 on Jul 5, 2011 8:40:45 GMT -5
Read through a list of evidentiary matters that Erick sent me. I am getting a better understanding of his case and who is involved. Erick makes some very good points. Obviously, he is heavily invested in his effort to win his freedom and has plenty of time to revisit many of the issues.
One of the points that Erick makes is that it is almost impossible to sneak up someone as big as Tim Gray and to hit him on the back of his head with 3 massive blows without him attempting to defend himself. Erick also makes a great point that to do it with a souvenir wooden hatchet is absolutely ridiculous. The prosecution only secured the wooden hatchet because that is what Erick had put in his "confession" and they wanted the weapon to match the confession.
The only reason that the jury convicted Erick with this pathetic story was because the trial was in Albany County. No way a jury in NYC or anywhere else jurors don't buy the cops and prosecutors stories hook,line and sinker would have gone with the use of toy hatchet as a murder weapon.
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Welcome
Jul 5, 2011 21:23:24 GMT -5
Post by William Ruddock on Jul 5, 2011 21:23:24 GMT -5
Bobbyo:
In this case the Jury was lead to believe that there were two tomahawks... Or that somehow the tomahawk found at the Westervelt home had somehow been cleaned of blood all traces of human blood.
There is nothing that links Erick physically to the crime. The foot prints, the DNA collected at the site. His car all provide NO link to Erick.
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Post by bobbyo1011 on Jul 7, 2011 8:04:56 GMT -5
Unfortunately, at this stage of the game, Erick will have to provide extremely strong and compelling truth that he did not murder Tim Gray. The only way I can see him doing that is to prove who actually did murder Tim Gray. I understand that there are many here who feel that is unfair and should not be necessary. They may be right and I may be wrong.
I am not an expert nor do I pretend to be. I do not pretend to be the greatest detective who ever lived. There are far better than me and there are some who are worse. I am basing my belief on other cases I have examined and participated in to some extent. I think that advocates for Erick need to be realistic and realize that this is going to be a long journey if they want to be successful in getting Erick out of prison.
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Welcome
Jul 9, 2011 19:30:21 GMT -5
Post by William Ruddock on Jul 9, 2011 19:30:21 GMT -5
Bob: Thanks for your thoughtful analysis of Erick's situation.
Finding the real killer(s) of Timothy Gray would be a silver bullet in Erick's situation. I'm hopeful that the real killer is nervous with all the support Erick is receiving.
But that is not the only way that we can see Erick get a fair hearing. I cannot discuss details in this forum, but, there are known cases where witnesses for the prosecution lied on the stand. There may be cases where evidence was poorly handled. Eventually the DA in Albany may change, and like the case of Jeffrey Deskovic, a new DA may look at this closely and see how the facts of the case do not match Erick's statement at all.
Bill
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Welcome
Jul 10, 2011 17:13:28 GMT -5
Post by bobbyo1011 on Jul 10, 2011 17:13:28 GMT -5
Well, Bill, your points may be well taken. Changing the DA, however, may not be a silver bullet in Erick's case either. For some strange reason, when DA's get elected, whatever they said to get elected changes when the second they are sworn in. However, I am new to this case and still learning it. I am looking forward to meeting with Erick to hear his case from his own lips. Obviously, he has the most at stake in the outcome to overturn his conviction.
I do know something about Jeffrey Deskovic's case. Jeffrey was lucky to have DNA evidence which eventually was tested and linked to a suspect whose DNA was in the state database. If my memory serves me well, that suspect admitted to doing the rape and murder that Jeffrey falsely confessed to and for which he was wrongfully convicted. In Jeffrey's case, he did have a DA with a conscience, (Janet DiFiorri) unlike her predecessor (Jeanine DiPirro) who refused to have the DNA in Jeffrey's case tested.
Unfortunately for Erick, any potential DNA (such as cigarette butts left at the scene and not collected) is forever lost due to the incompetence of the state police crime scene technicians.
We have a long journey ahead of us so if Erick really is innocent, we need to take one step at a time.
There is no point for me to jump the gun at this point.
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Welcome
Jul 10, 2011 19:12:18 GMT -5
Post by bobbyo1011 on Jul 10, 2011 19:12:18 GMT -5
Erick's confession troubles me. When a police officer interrogates someone, it is lawful to lie to the suspect in order to facilitate a confession. I have never interrogated a murder suspect but I have interrogated many for other serious crimes and been successful (that includes confessions for child pedophilia which I consider the most difficult to get). You might tell a suspect that you know more than you know. You might use a number of ruses to lead the suspect to believe that evidence exists to link them to the crime and to deny their involvement is futile. Let's face it. Guilty suspects don't want to admit their crimes and it is an artform to get them to do so.
What really bothers me about Erick's so-called confession is that the officers minimized the crime. In other other words, they made it sound like Tim Gray's wound were superficial and amounted to little more than one would sustain in a bar fight. According to Erick, he had been detained for an inordinate amount of time and believed he could not leave when he wanted. I mean that is why the cops drove him to the station wasn't it? So, he wouldn't be tempted to either not show or to leave when he wanted? That strange thing is the detectives knew Tim Grays wounds were ultimately fatal, then so would the perpetrator. The perpetrator could not be fooled by minimizing the wounds because, by being there, he would know that the wounds were much more than a few few punch bruised from a fist fight. Erick said he wasn't there so, if that is true, he would be fooled by the cops telling him that Tim Gray's wounds were not life threatening. I have 2 sons in the 20's. I can see any young man in Erick's position being tempted to admitting he was in a fight with someone (even if they weren't) just to be allowed to leave a long and lengthy interrogation.
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Welcome
Jul 18, 2011 12:48:14 GMT -5
Post by bobbyo1011 on Jul 18, 2011 12:48:14 GMT -5
It would be very useful for anyone having information regarding Erick's case that was not brought up in his trial to contact the webmaster. I am getting the feeling that the whole story leading up to Tim Gray's murder has not yet been told. I may be way wrong. If so, I will be willing to admit it. I have no real stake in Erick's case other than trying to do the right thing if he really is innocent.
I am going to assume that Tim Gray's family wants the same thing. I cannot believe that they would want anyone other than the person who truly murdered Tim. I can fully understand why they believe that the right person was arrested, convicted and sentenced to prison.
They may be right. However, there are some serious problems with this case.
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Welcome
Jul 19, 2011 12:07:25 GMT -5
Post by bobbyo1011 on Jul 19, 2011 12:07:25 GMT -5
Bill: I have trying to pass the word down here in Suffolk County where many people remember the Marty Tankleff case.
I am hoping to develop more people to look into Erick's case by visiting this website and make up their minds about his guilt or innocence.
Hopefully, the recent developments with Eric Moffre will also reinvigorate the media's interest in revisiting Erick's conviction.
I realize that Erick cannot prove that Moffre committed perjury merely because:
1. He beat his wife and girlfriend
2. He is "just happens" to be a friend of an Albany cop who was friends with Tim Gray.
3. He "just happens" to have been in the same college fraternity as Tim Gray.
4. He "just happens" to hear Erick tell his cellmates that he murdered Tim Gray in the most improbable and very hard to believe manner.
I am still having a tough time trying to figure out how Erick can sneak up behind Gray with a wooden souvenir hatchet and get in 3 deadly blows to the back of Gray's head without Gray mounting a defense.
I have to really think hard and long to figure out how that could have happened with just one perpetrator.
But, then why let the truth get in the way of a perfectly good story?
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Welcome
Jul 24, 2011 16:06:12 GMT -5
Post by bobbyo1011 on Jul 24, 2011 16:06:12 GMT -5
Bill:
I am looking forward to meeting with Erick this Saturday. I am also looking forward to meeting with friends and family of Erick who support him and maintain his innocence this Friday night.
I think I will have a much greater grasp of Erick's. I have found out a long time ago, as an investigator, you cannot substitute personal contact in order to sort out the true facts.
I would love to meet with Erick's parents, as well.
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Welcome
Jul 24, 2011 21:29:41 GMT -5
Post by William Ruddock on Jul 24, 2011 21:29:41 GMT -5
Bob: It is my hope that you do get a chance to meet Wendy and John. They are quiet and sincere. My heart goes out to them both for having to live through any parent's nightmare. To see their son convicted of a crime he did not commit and to see a justice system treat their son this way has been a hard cross to carry.
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